Chase's Balance Liquidation Program is Fantastic

[This post is written and copyrighted by Financial Elite (http://financialelite.blogspot.com/ ).]

The start of my five year plan to paying off my six figures of debt is well underway. I also just received my confirmation of starting Chase's Balance Liquidation Program A.K.A. BLP on the first credit card I set up on the program.

I can not get over how great Chase has treated me and how they have helped get me back on track. Today's letter has confirmed everything Chase said they would do for me.

- An annual percentage rate of 0.00% for all balances
- A payment of more than half of what it was
- Late and over the limit fees are waived while I am enrolled in the program
- Eliminates my balance within 60 months.

And most important of all they are eliminating over $4,000 of interest. That's right four thousand dollars eliminated from my total owed debt.

If you are having a problem paying your credit cards with Chase check out this program. I really feel Chase really wants to help keep their clients on track and help get their payments on track and get out of debt.

We Also Suggest:

• Bank of America's Balance Liquidation Program (BLP) Still Sucks     
• What's the Best Way to Pay off My Credit Card Debt If I Have a High FICO Credit Score ?
• How did This Economic Crisis Start?
• Should I Use My 401K to Pay Off My Mortgage?
• Should I Take Out a 401K Loan to Pay Off My Credit Cards? 

Now What Do I Do? 

• Follow my journey to pay off debt and subscribe by email.
• Subscribe in a Reader (RSS)
• Follow us on Twitter
• Follow us on Blogger 

Kudos for Chase...Bank of America Can Suck It

[This post is written and copyrighted by Financial Elite (http://financialelite.blogspot.com/ ).]

Well here we go again at another go around of paying off six figures of debt. The first time around took me five years and that is what I am expecting to happen again this time.

As we have discussed before so many of my friends and family members are throwing in the towel and filing bankruptcy and letting their homes go. I will admit the last time I was in this much debt I had really considered bankruptcy and I have definitely considered it again.

My thinking though is I paid of my six figures of debt before and I can do it again. There are a couple of differences between this time than last though. The first go round I was never late on any payment. This time I have been late and I am going to need some help.

So I have started going down the line and began calling my creditors. Starting with Bank of America.

Bank of America offered me a what I thought was a generous five year repayment plan. Lowering my interest and payments. I have three personal accounts and have begun working on two of them. The first one was a credit card with an interest rate of 27.99% and a payment of $820. This card now has an interest rate of 2% and a payment of $450. The second is a credit line that had a 17.99% interest rate and a payment of $279. This line now has a rate of 5% and a payment of $210.

Next I began working on Chase. Chase offered a similar plan, but a way better deal. First off Chase dropped my interest rate to zero. Did you hear that? Zip, Zilch, nada, not one cent. They offered me the same five year plan Bank of America did, but not only did they drop my interest rate to zero, they took off all the interest and waived any late and over the limit fees. Now that's what I call working with your client.

Bank of America did not have to a thing for me. They could have just sent me to collections with no deal whatsoever and their deal was better than what Consumer Credit Counseling could have got for me, but for being a twenty year client with multiple loans you think they could have done better. I guess at least it's better than nothing.

We Also Suggest:

• Bank of America's Balance Liquidation Program (BLP) Still Sucks     
• What's the Best Way to Pay off My Credit Card Debt If I Have a High FICO Credit Score ?
• How did This Economic Crisis Start?
• Should I Use My 401K to Pay Off My Mortgage?
• Should I Take Out a 401K Loan to Pay Off My Credit Cards? 

Now What Do I Do? 

• Follow my journey to pay off debt and subscribe by email.
• Subscribe in a Reader (RSS)
• Follow us on Twitter
• Follow us on Blogger 

Are You Ready to Come Out of the Closet...About Your Debt?

[This post is written and copyrighted by Financial Elite (http://financialelite.blogspot.com/ ).]

The first time I was six figures in debt I told no one. My ex-wife knew, but she helped contribute to the problem in the first place.

Everyone just thought I had money to burn. Especially, my family, with my mom always referring to me as her "rich son."

I was too ashamed to tell anyone the mass of debt that had been acquired. That first time though it seemed I had been forced into it. The constant arguing over money with my then wife ultimately led to our divorce. In least in my eyes it did, as she would probably say I just didn't make enough money, which was true for the lifestyle she wanted to live.

After my divorce I had come clean about the debt. Everyone was in disbelief that I had so much debt. But the debt that built up during my first marriage had begun to get cut down, left and right. It wasn't overnight, but things just seemed to line up, one after the other. After 5 years I was debt free and determined not to let it happen again.

But it did happen all over again -- six figures in debt...again! After the last time I did become the "rich son" as my mother calls me. Remaining debt free and a massing quite the savings. When this current recession hit though, I began heading in the same direction as I did before and again, I didn't tell a soul. I was once again a closet debtor.

I recently read on article at CNNMoney.com called 'The secret lives of America's debtors' and it inspired my to change the title of the Financial Elite blog to our current name. I have so many friends and family members coming clean to me on a regular basis and after reading this article and seeing so many others coming clean as well I figured I might as well as join the party.

In the article I read one wife describe how she opened a credit card without her husbands knowledge and charged it up, "I thought that I'd just pay it off each month," she said, "But it was $100 here and $200 there, and soon it was spiraling out of control." The wife suggests, "It's better to be honest," she says, "Sure, you'll probably cause a fight -- but at some point you've got to stop fighting."

My current wife of course knows our current financial situation, but at this moment only our current readers now the truth. I still haven't come clean. I guess this time around I still feel ashamed and maybe there is an ego thing attached as well. I listen to so many people having problems and I just tentatively listen without sharing with them and telling them I know what you mean.

The last time this happen to me though I was determined not to file bankruptcy and this time is no different. I didn't give up without a fight the last go around. So here we go putting up my dukes again.

So the question still remains. Will I come out of the closet? Well, I think I just did.

We Also Suggest:

• Bank of America's Balance Liquidation Program (BLP) Still Sucks     
• What's the Best Way to Pay off My Credit Card Debt If I Have a High FICO Credit Score ?
• How did This Economic Crisis Start?
• Should I Use My 401K to Pay Off My Mortgage?
• Should I Take Out a 401K Loan to Pay Off My Credit Cards? 

Now What Do I Do? 

• Follow my journey to pay off debt and subscribe by email.
• Subscribe in a Reader (RSS)
• Follow us on Twitter
• Follow us on Blogger 

If Others Can Dig Their Way Out of Mountains of Debt, You Can Too!

As we've discussed previously more and more people are choosing to live a debt free lifestyle. We saw the Hildebrandt's dig their way out of $106,000 of credit card debt and begin their debt free life (aside from their mortgage). Just like the Hildebrandt's, continued stories of consumers paying off their debt are continuing to emerge.

According to the Nilson Report, a industry newsletter, the average American household has $8,329 in credit card debt. Lois and Clark have that beat tipping the scales at $193,323.79 of debt. The Hildebrandt's had $106,0000. Now we take look at Dawn Warfield.

Two years ago, Dawn Warfield was drowning in $80,000 of debt. Ten times the national average. She admits that living beyond her means and maxing out her 17 credit cards was part of the problem.

"There is always unforeseen expenses, and when you are making the minimum payments on these credit cards, when you think you can't afford to make more than that, they don't go down." said Warfield.

She had a lot going on at one point. She was going through an expensive divorce and was using her personal credit cards to finance opening her second location for her video store business. "Every month I was writing out 17 checks," she said, "And the interest rates ranged from like 6 percent to 33 percent. So it was impossible."

Warfield decided she needed to take matters in her own hands. "I was transferring balances from one card to another, and every time I got a card to a decent interest rate. I felt like one of the cards would come off the promotional interest rate, and I was just never catching up." She sold the second location of her video and stopped using her credit cards and began looking for help.

She sat down one day and called the credit card companies for all of her credit cards. She called all them one by one and asked each on to work with her and lower her interest rates. None of the would help her. They had directed her to a debt management program of a nonprofit Consumer Credit Counseling Service, which was part of Money Management International.

Together, Warfield and a credit counselor, analyzed her bills and expenses and put together a plan to lower her interest rates and get her one monthly payment.

"I don't even have to think about it, which makes it a lot easier for me, because when you have a lot of debt, it's not just financial, but it's emotional, you know, even physical," Warfield said, "You think about it all the time."

She make her payments on time now. Her payment posts to her creditors accounts and she has very low interest rates.

Warfield is on track to have all her debts paid off in five years. She has been in the program now for two years and is now $40,000 less in debt.

"I'm about halfway," Warfield said, "It hasn't been easy, but we're getting there."

If you are feeling hopeless about paying of your debt, DON'T. You can do it. Although, I was able to pay off my $60,000 of credit card debt without the use of a credit counseling agency, both Dawn and the Hildebrandt's received help from credit counseling. If you have tried to work with your creditors to no avail, contact the National Foundation for Credit Counseling. They have trained counselors who will help you asses your situation and help you develop a plan for the most realistic and logical steps for you to follow. The folks at the NFCC are the ones you can trust. Visit nfcc.org or call 800-388-2227.

Watch Dawn's story.

Financial Motivational Quote June 8, 2009

"Money isn't everything-there's credit cards, money orders, and travelers' checks."

Financial Motivational Quote June 4, 2009

"This is my ultimate fantasy, watching QVC with a credit card while making love and eating at the same time."- Yasmine Bleeth

How Do I Cut Back On Expenses?

Suggestions have been pouring in on how to cut back and apply the extra found money to your credit cards. Here are the latest:


- Join a wholesale club and buy in bulk, like Sams Club or Costco. Split large quantities with friends.-

-Use a hose instead of the car wash

- Carpool

- Take the bus to work instead of driving

- East out less

- Ride a bike or walk places if possible

- Use birth control to avoid unwanted pregnancies

- Buy nothing you do not need

- Give up drinking or smoking

- Put of giving to charity until you can afford to do so

- Cut back on gift giving

- Make gifts yourself

- Cancel newspaper and magazine subscriptions

- Shop at secondhand stores

- Accept hand me downs for your children

- Save money in a special account or an envelope instead of using layaway

- Bake and cook things that you would normally buy

- Cancel any trips you have planned- and take a less expensive route- like camping

- Send e cards, instead of buying and mailing cards

If you have cut back to help pay off your credit cards tell us what you did so we can share your tips.

Financial Motivational Quote June 2, 2009

"Modern man drives a mortgaged car over a bond financed highway on credit card gas."- Earl Wilson

If I Don't Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Debt, How Can I Pay Off My Credit Card Debt? Continued...

People have been asking about taking out 401K loans to pay off their credit card debt and how to find extra money to pay off their debt. Suggestions keep coming in and we are sharing another group of tips on how to save money and put the extra found dough towards your debt.

- Have a garage sale.

- Sell items to pawn shops. Remember you may receive less than fifty percent of the item you are pawning.

- Sell items using a consignment shop.

- Turn your hobby into a money making business. Website design, cleaning, landscaping, cooking and baking, making birdhouses, whatever floats your boat. Do what you like to do and make money doing it.

- If you have children who work get them to contribute to the household.

- Place an add in free classifieds in local community newspapers to sell things.

- Sell items on eBay or Craigslist.

- Get a second job. Even small jobs can help you raise the money you need.

- Ask for a raise or more hours at work.

- Return things you bought and don't need. Get the cash back if you still have the receipt. If you don't have the receipt get store credit to but things you do need.

With the economy in it's current state you may not want to take out a 401K loan right now. If you get laid off you will have to pay taxes on the entire amount you withdrew. Instead find ways to cut back and pay off the debt slowly, but surely. It will pay off (no pun intended) in the long run.

Have you paid off credit card debt by cutting back? Let us hear from you.

Should I Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing To My 401K If I Want To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing to My 401K To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Reward Cards May Help You Save.

Financial Motivational Quote June 1, 2009

"Money is just the poor man's credit card."- Marshall McLuhan

If I Don't Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Debt Where Else Can I Get Money? Continued...

People are depleting their already ravaged 401K's and retirement accounts to just get buy or pay down their credit card debt. I want you to remember that your retirement savings is extremely important and taking it out to pay off debt can one day leave you with nothing. Social security is looking like it is going to run out 4 years earlier than expected and you probably won't be with a company long enough to have a pension. So, what you put in your in your 401K or IRA might be all you have one day.

There are ways to cut back and put the difference of what you save towards your credit cards. With some these of things you might say, "I am not doing without that", but one day you might have to say, "I have to do without my medication or food" for that matter. It is better to do without certain things temporarily now than later.

- Raise the deductible on you car insurance.

- If you have insurance through your credit cards, cancel it. Insurance through credit card companies is usually over priced.

- If you feel you need life insurance, which I do recommend, shop around with local insurance agents.

- Cancel any insurance against credit card theft or loss you may have purchased. This insurance is not necessary. You are only liable for the first $50 used on a card after you report it stolen or missing.

- Reduce the minutes on your cell phone plan and try not to us the phone as much. If you consistently use more minutes than your plan allows, consider changing your plan with more minutes to avoid high charges for out of plan minutes.

- Cancel your land line and use your cell as your main phone.

- Block texting on your cell phone. Texting fees can really add up.

- Cancel you long distance service. Get a calling card.

- Turn off lights when not in the room.

- Lower the heat during the day when you are away at work and at night when you are asleep.

- Turn your thermostat down just one or two degrees when you are home.

- Turn down the thermostat on your water heater by one or two degrees.

- Do laundry with cold water instead of hot.

- Open a window instead of turning on the air conditioner.

- Cancel your cable service or reduce the number of premium channels you pay for.

- Cancel your Internet account and sign up for a free service or a company that pays you to surf or go to the library when you need to go online.

- Use a free email service like Gmail or Yahoo.

- Turn on just the light next to you instead of turning on all the lights in a room. Be sure to turn it off when you leave the room.

- Turn off computers when you are not using them.

- Turn off the water while you are brushing your teeth.

Doing some these things really sucks, but it may be necessary. At on time I had $60,000 in credit card debt. I was never late on a payment and paid back the entire amount. These were some of the very things I did to get the debt paid off. I can't imagine going back to dial up for Internet use, but if I had to do it again to preserve my credit and my retirement I would definitely do it again.

Have you paid off credit card debt by cutting back? Let us hear from you.

Should I Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing To My 401K If I Want To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing to My 401K To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Reward Cards May Help You Save.

If I Don't Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Debt Where Else Can I Get Money?

The question of using your 401K to pay off your credit card debt is related to many topics we have discussed before including: keeping your house out of foreclosure to paying your credit cards on time. I have suggested actions such as renting rooms out or getting a second job. Having debt can be very stressful, but if you want to get out from under your mountain of debt, you may have to do things you don't want to do. You need to consider what is more stressful? Making those payments forever or biting the bullet and cut back for a while. Here are some additional ideas for finding extra money to pay towards your credit card debt. They may make small dents in your credit card debt, but they will really add up over time.

- Sell any investments you have

- Sell other assets, a boat, comic book collection, extra car, jewelry, etc. Anything that you can trade for cash.

- If you have child support payments see if you can get your obligations reduced.

- Use your tax refund or alimony payment.

- Transfer your credit card balances to a card with a low interest rate.

- If you have a card with an annual fee see if the credit card company will be willing to waive it.

- Borrower money from family or friends. But remember you need to pay them back too. You can really ruin your relationship with them over something like this.

- Get rid of your overdraft protection on your bank accounts. This will help you from getting into more debt.

- Shred any cash advance checks you have received from your credit card company. If you haven't paid the balance off when the interest adjusts, it will make things worse.

- Don't use ATM's at banks other than your own. ATM fees can really add up.

- Put away your credit cards so you are not tempted to charge on them.

- Increase the number of dependents you claim on your W-2 at work. But be careful. You can end up owing money come tax time if you listed too many dependents.

- Start a budget and watch where your money is going. You may find other ways to cut back.

- See if you qualify for assistance from a local food pantry or other charities.

- Apply for public assistance if you are out of work or disabled. This money will not be enough to pay off your debt, but it may give extra money to put food on the table.

- Some rewards cards offer cash back incentives. See if you have any cash due and put towards your credit card debt rather than spend it.

- Stop taking cash advances on your credit cards. The interest and fees will make things worse.

It's not that hard to be creative. Put your mind to it. There is always a way to cut back somewhere.

Have you paid your debt off by finding ways to cut back? Let us hear from you. Share your tips and let's give some folks some ideas.

Should I Take Out A 401K Loan To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing To My 401K If I Want To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Should I Stop Contributing to My 401K To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Reward Cards May Help You Save.

Can I Consolidate My Private Student loans?

I really don't suggest getting private loans with so many other options. One reason is you will be at the mercy of your lender and they do do not have to consolidate your loan or give any kind of deferments. Also, the current economy has eliminated the private student debt consolidation market for now.

One piece of good news is that the $700 billion bailout bill restored a college tax break that had previously expired. You can deduct up to $4,000 in college tuition and fees if you make less than $65,000 for single filers. A $2,000 deduction if your income is between $65,000 and $80,000 or 4,000 for those making $130,000 and who are married and filing jointly. You'll get the $2,000 deduction for incomes between $130,000 and $160,000. These deductions can be filed whether you are itemizing or not.

Should I Consolidate My Student Loan After I Graduate?

Consolidating your student loans can be a good idea. The best part about it is you can put all your student loan payments into a one payment a month. This will also benefit your FICO credit score. It will also be easier to manage one payment.

The fixed consolidation rate for a Stafford loan is 6.8% as of July 1, 2006.

President Obama Signs New Credit Card Bill Into Law

President Obama signed the U.S. Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act of 2009 on Friday.

"Our business is changing," said Bank of America's Global Card Services President Ric Struthers,"It is changing partly because of the new law, but more importantly because customers are changing. They want rates and fess to be fair and to remain consistent. They want to be able to read and understand the terms and conditions of their credit card agreements. They want to be informed and know what it costs them to use a credit card. We completely agree."

Similar to regulations passed by the Federal reserve late last year, he new legislation restricts credit issuers; ability to price customers to reflect their individual risk, changes the way payments are applied to customer accounts and requires new disclosures. The majority of the provisions in the law became effective next February.

Some key provisions in the new law include:

- Prohibiting over limit fees unless the customer opts in to being allowed to go over the limit.

- Allocating payment amounts above the required minimum only to the highest rate balances first.

- Prohibiting rate increases on existing balances except in limited circumstances, including when cardholder payment is at least 60 days past due.

- Requiring statement disclosures that indicate how long it would take to pay off a balance if the customer only pays the minimum each month.

- Ensuring young people under 21 have a cosigner or are able to demonstrate financial ability to repay the loan before they are issued a credit card account.

"While there will be a significant impact to the card business," said Struthers, "ours goals remain the same: to responsibly lend to the broadcast number of customers possible, while protecting the safety and soundness of our company, and providing an appropriate return to our shareholders."

In the fourth quarter last year, Bank of America extended $8 billion of unsecured consumer credit and loan another $6 billion in the first quarter of this year.

"The payments business, including credit cards , is here to stay," Struthers said.

in 2008, U.S. cardholders charged more than $2 trillion in total volume, 14 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product.

"The credit card is embedded in our financial system," he concluded.

Should I Stop Contributing To My 401K If I Want To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

I Haven't Paid My Credit Card Bills In Years. Why Am I Being Told I Still Owe Money?


Can Credit Card Companies And Collectors Harass Me at Work?

Everyone Has a Credit Card Horror Story

Where To Find The Best Credit Cards

Finding the best credit cards can be confusing, but here is what we found on CNNMoney recently. Picks that offer great perks to suit your spending habits.

1. Balance Transfers
The Card: iberiaBank Visa Classic
Website: creditcardsiberiabank.com
Rate: 6.25%-8.25%
This card offers zero interest on balance transfers for six months- and there is no balance transfer fee.

2. A little cash back
The Card: Schwab Bank Invest First Visa
Website: Schwab.com
Rate: 13.99%
Earn 2% unlimited cash back on every single purchase you make. You must have a Schwab One brokerage account, but there are no fees to open or maintain it.

3. A lot of cash back
The Card: Blue Cash from American Express
Website: americanexpress.com
Rate: starts at 7.99% plus prime
Charge at least $6,500 a year, and your cash-back percentage zooms from 1% to 5% on purchases at gas stations, supermarkets, and drugstores, and from 0.5% to 1.5% on everything else.

4. Cash at the pump
The Card: Pentagon Federal Visa Platinum
Website: penfed.org
Rate: 13.99%
Get 5% unlimited cash back at the pump, plus 2% on supermarket purchases and 1.25% on everything else. You must join a credit union to get the card.

5. Travel Miles
The Card: Escape by Discover
Website: discovercard.com
Rate:10.99% to 18.99%
Earn two miles for every dollar spent, plus 1,000 bonus miles each month you make a purchase for the first 12 months. Drawback: a $60 annual fee.

10 Things Credit Card Companies Don't Want You To Know. Part 9 0f 10

April has been Credit Card Question and Answer month here at Financial Elite. We continue with Part 10 with information provided from an article from SmartMoney about the little known rules that are costing you money and putting your credit, your identity and your family at risk.

Think your credit card transaction will be declined if you go over your limit? Think again. If you do go over your limit you have regret having done so. It could raise credit card interest rate sky high.

Many people learn the hard way when they go over their credit card limit and their interest rates sky rocket to 29%. An event like this, among others, can push you into credit counseling and into a debt-management plan.

Keeping you in the hole forever, banks may continue to charge an over limit fee against maxed out credit cardholders. A penalty of $30 every month your credit card balance remains over the credit limit. A lot of credit cardholders will deal with the fee rather than the embarrassment of being declined.

Over limit fees can simply be another way for banks to make money at the expense of the unknowing consumer.

If banks are willing to allow charges over the limit then they should accept he profit that comes from the increased interest rate charges and be satisfied with that.

10 Things Credit Card Companies Don't Want You To Know. Part 9 0f 10

April has been Credit Card Question and Answer month here at Financial Elite. We continue with Part 9 with information provided from an article from SmartMoney about the little known rules that are costing you money and putting your credit, your identity and your family at risk.

A credit card with great incentives, a low interest rate and just the right mix of perks and fees that are the just the right fit for you might be what you think you have, but looks can be deceiving. The credit card company can change the terms of your Utopia credit card agreement at any time.

Consumer groups report this is a sore spot with credit cardholders, and with good cause. many lenders and credit card companies defend this practice saying things like, "A credit purchase is an unsecured loan. It's the riskiest sort of lending we do, which is why it's expensive. The banks are protecting themselves."

Unhappy credit cardholders will almost always seek alternatives and credit card lending is a highly competitive market.

How do you protect yourself from having the wool pulled over your eyes? Be vigilant and pay attention to all the mail you get from your credit card company. even if it looks like junk mail.

10 Things Credit Card Companies Don't Want You To Know. Part 2 0f 10

April has been Credit Card Question and Answer month here at Financial Elite. We continue with Part 2 with information provided from an article from SmartMoney about the little known rules that are costing you money and putting your credit, your identity and your family at risk.

2. "When it comes to identity theft, we're part of the problem."

Tony Sciulli of Santa Barbara, an identity theft victim, says it all started with a forged credit card application. A $3,000 balance was mysteriously transferred to a new credit card in his name, followed by a ready made check billed to one of his other cards. What can you do to avoid this sort of low tech thievery? Buy a shredder, and minimize the credit credit applications coming to your house by registering at OptOutPrescreen.com

But paper solicitations are only the beginning. As Internet security expert and author Bruce Schneier warns, "Data about you is not under your control." He points to examples such as May 2005 case involving Bank of America and Wachovia, in which a man posing as collection agent paid bank employees for customer data in New Jersey. The banks notified customers their data may have been compromised and offered to help watch their accounts for suspicious activity. (The man, Orazio Lembo, pleaded guilty in March 2007 and was sentenced to five years in prison and fined $20,000.)

But John Hall, a spokesman for the American Bankers Association, insists that banks have "Pentagon level security." His advice:"Monitor your accounts. Protect your passwords and your computer."

Should I Stop Contributing To My 401K If I Want To Pay Off My Credit Cards?

Not really. Especially if your employer offers a company match. No matter how much credit card debt you have or how out of whack your finances are. Don't miss out on this free money. No matter if your employer matches dollar for dollar, matches half of what you contribute, or matches even a quarter of what you put in, you don't want to pass this up.